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 SPECTRE: Some thoughts.

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Dock Fight
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PostSubject: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptySat May 07, 2022 10:08 pm

So I've been making my way, slowly, through the Craig Bond films thanks to upgrading my system to 4K. Finally watched 2015's SPECTRE, the fourth entry in the Craig era. Previously, I'd only seen it once, during its initial theatrical release. I didn't like it then, but it was more of a "meh" than active dislike. So I was interested in how the film would feel seven years later.

Unfortunately, it was worse than I remembered it. The decision to make this a continuity-heavy entry (unlike SKYFALL) was, IMNSHO, a huge mistake. The amount of retconning and new information needed to even attempt to make this entry land with some impact was just too much; the film is bogged down with far too much LORE.

Much of the movie looks like it was filmed through a bottle of piss: an ugly yellow filter or recoloring.

Waltz seems like he'd be a great Bond villain but here he's flailing. The material utterly fails him and he comes across as a very generic action film baddie, despite the film's making him specific to Bond's childhood.

Bond's tryst with the Italian widow played like unintentional parody. They bang Because Movie (Because Bond Tradition) rather than out of any remotely believable reasons.

Even the score is off, many times, sounding weirdly spooky or video-game-esque rather than being written for a globe-spanning action film.

Whishaw as Q is a bright spot in the film; he was great casting and he has a really great chemistry with Craig. Incorporating Team M as part of the plot and finale feels like a huge mistake; it adds running time and ends up making the film feel like a generic action film.

And that's the thing: people complained about NTTD and its conclusion, but to me, SPECTRE is the one Craig film that is a Bond film in name only. Replace some character names, and this could easily be the first entry in a big budget action franchise. Even the villain's hideout in a meteor crater (a volcanic caldera IRL) feels lifeless and...boring.

I can give the film two positive notes, though. First: Swann and Bond actually have a bit of chemistry here, which didn't work AT ALL for me the first time I saw it. I still don't think their relationship earns the ending we get here (though NTTD redeems it) and it's very rushed...but it's not devoid of spark.

Second: the opening sequence isn't just a banger - it is! I wish the rest of the film had its verve, pacing, and Bondishness - but it once again directly plays into the persistent theme of the Craig Bond: he is a character drawn towards death. Craig's Bond doesn't just flirt with it, or inflict it: death is an inexorable black hole at the center of this version of Bond, and he's continually drawn towards it, circling closer and closer. It makes the end of NTTD all the more fitting and poignant, as this Bond stops fighting fate but also does a bit of spiritual judo with that fate, accepting his death while also making it count for something more than just duty to the crown.
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Stockslivevan
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PostSubject: Re: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptySat May 07, 2022 11:27 pm

The biggest thing that could have saved the climax for me is if Bond had to fight Hinx in the ruins of MI6. Killing him off after the train fight was not the right call.

I still feel it’s a middle of the road Bond film rather than being among the worst.
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Dock Fight
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PostSubject: Re: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptySun May 08, 2022 9:34 am

Stockslivevan wrote:
I still feel it’s a middle of the road Bond film rather than being among the worst.

You might be right! I haven't seen most of the non-Craig films in decades.

But for me, it's definitely the worst of the Craig series. I deem Quantum of Solace better mainly because that film is significantly shorter and thus does not extend the pain as badly.
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Belloq87

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PostSubject: Re: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptySun May 08, 2022 8:32 pm

SPECTRE has a lot of elements that I like, but the handling of Blofeld and retconning of much of the previous three films as being his doing tanks the movie for me.

The end of SKYFALL had set the board beautifully to move on from the personal baggage, yet SPECTRE triples down.

Chaz Rock City likes this post

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The Schlocketeer

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PostSubject: Re: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptySun May 08, 2022 10:23 pm

Stockslivevan wrote:
The biggest thing that could have saved the climax for me is if Bond had to fight Hinx in the ruins of MI6. Killing him off after the train fight was not the right call.

SPECTRE: Some thoughts. This

Seriously. It would have really livened that section up, instead of us just getting Bond shambling about a busted MI6 looking at a printer paper presentation and easily leaping to safety before the building goes up.
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Stockslivevan
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PostSubject: Re: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptyMon May 09, 2022 3:38 pm

The difference is pretty striking. With SF it seemed like everyone was on the same page about what movie they were making and how to go about it. With SP, it felt like everyone was compromising. Mendes just wanted to make an old school Bond type adventure as a throwback to the 60s/70s, Craig was thinking this might be his last and nudged for that, EON wanted to replicate the dramatic stakes of SF, and the writers are trying to figure out how to fit it all together but never satisfying anyone.

Looking at some of the previous drafts, it could have been so much worse. There’s a draft where on the bridge at the end of the climax Bond uncharacteristically grabs Blofeld by the neck and raises him up in the air like Jason Voorhees until he chokes to death. And the dialogue is dreadful.


https://twitter.com/bondwriting/status/1402031197765705729?s=21&t=CTASU3UX2keKpjsd-bB2_g

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Belloq87

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PostSubject: Re: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptyMon May 09, 2022 3:49 pm

I hate the final version of that scene in the movie, but that draft of it is atrocious.

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Dock Fight
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PostSubject: Re: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptyMon May 09, 2022 6:33 pm

I'm hoping to rewatch NTTD this weekend. I've only seen it once (theatrical release) and really liked it...but am quite curious as to how it'll play on a second viewing. Especially on the heels of something as botched as SPECTRE.
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Headless Fett

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PostSubject: Re: SPECTRE: Some thoughts.   SPECTRE: Some thoughts. EmptyMon May 09, 2022 11:22 pm


Your review of this echoes a lot of my feelings about it as well. Not only is it a very mediocre Bond film with a HORRIBLE (Academy Award winning) theme song it's just not a good film at all.

Not surprising given the direction coupled with the four people involved in writing it. Basically killed any interest I had in any follow up or future Bond films for the foreseeable future.
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