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 What do you want in Star Trek XIII?

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PostSubject: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:55 pm

There's a lot of arguments between Trek fans on various forums over what the recent film got right or wrong. Everyone has their own idea of what Trek should be like. Let me lay down the rules for this thread.

1. This will still feature the cast from the last two.
2. That means you can't reboot, or even switch to a different cast like TNG.

That's about it. Now, considering those rules, here's what I would like to see in the next film.

1.) No fan service. A few references here and there are fine, but no more. With the current cast, I feel it is vital that they should be given new stories, more unique adventures that don't recycle plots from previous films. Why use a previous iconic villain, when you could make a new one that might become just as iconic? Let the films with this new cast really make their mark rather than reuse older ideas. This is Star Trek, it should boldy go further, not back.

2.) No cameos by the older cast. I felt it was a mistake to bring in old Spock not only in the latest film but also in the 2009 film. Seemed more like a way to make it seem legitimate for fans, that it wasn't just some cynical studio product but by filmmakers who had the seal of approval in the form of a senile Leonard Nimoy. Like I said in the first point, I feel it's important to have the new cast stand on their own.

3.) Get rid of the current writers. They claim to love Trek, and I don't doubt that. However, they're not good screenwriters. Four years and what we got in STID was the best they could possibly come up with? Rehashing older plot points? This reboot was supposed to pave the way for new adventures, but that seems to have been abandoned by these writers. After two films, I think it's time for them to step aside and let other writers have a crack at it. There's no doubt many writers who dreamed of writing new stories about Kirk and Spock, let someone else pitch in a story that has the potential to make a great Star Trek flick.

4) Hire Brad Bird as director. Given that he has a good relationship with Bad Robot, he seems like a very good possibility. After that last MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE film, I think he has the right sensibilities to deliver a Trek film with solid action, humor and intrigue. With his experience he could also find a way to give everyone in the cast something more substantial to do. Nimoy had that experience when making THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK and THE VOYAGE HOME, giving all the cast something worthwhile.



Anyway, those are the things I would like in the next film. But it's not just about what I want, it's also about what you'd like to see. Hence the title of the thread. So folks, make your lists!
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PostSubject: Star Trek XIII: Resistance (2016)   Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 pm

Wow you and me are different on this. I don't think was a mistake to have Spock Prime in the new films. I thought it was brilliant way to keep the prime timeline (the old canon) attached and creating a new alternate one without upsetting so many fans and bringing in newcomers at the same time. Of course not everybody is happy with this direction where J.J Abrams, Alex Kurtzman, Roberto Orci and Damon Lindelof took with Star Trek. It doesn't bother me if there were a lot of references and Easter eggs in these new films. And I don't mind with few cameos.

I know this might be going back to an old concept but I think this would be a great idea and could work. It might sound like a remake of Star Trek: The Motion Picture but not entirely. I thought the alternate reality TOS crew could revisit V'ger but there is a Borg involvement with V'ger and it could be an origin story for the Borg and would be the resurrection of the fallen Borg Collective (the Unicomplex in Borg Space in the Delta Quadrant of the Milky Way) from the Star Trek: Voyager finale, "Endgame". I would love see J.J Abrams' or someone else's re-imagine on the Borg and a new twist to them and plus Kirk and his crew are the only ones that have never faced the Borg. Picard, Sisko, Janeway and Archer are the ones have. I also thought it would maybe give Kirk Prime (Bill Shatner), Picard/Locutus (Patrick Stewart) and maybe the Borg Queen (Alice Krige or Susanna Thompson) a cameo in this one.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:43 am

I think going for a straight reboot would have been just fine and would have invited less comparison. It doesn't mean the old timeline has to be thrown away, that could continue on while the new one from Abrams develops. Tying the two together makes it overly complicated. Like how is Pike is 20 years older than he's supposed to be. I doubt Nero's time interference aged him 20 years older.

If they have to retell a Star Trek story, I rather they go for something that didn't work the first time. They went for Khan because he was obviously a recognizable name in Trek. Why shouldn't they re-imagine Garth of Izar? His episode wasn't very good, but his backstory told in the episode actually holds a lot of potential for a very good story. But nobody tries re-imagining what didn't work, it's always the more popular names because they want brand recognition.

If I had the creative powers I would actually look back at THE FINAL FRONTIER and take a couple of elements that worked and even some that didn't. This is my own premise:

Sybok's background is for the most part the same. A renegade Vulcan who was banished from his homeworld for promoting his ideas that went against the teachings of Surak. He looks to emotion as self-knowledge. The finding God angle would be dropped. I would still cast Sybok with a very charismatic actor because that to me is one of the most vital aspects of the character. Laurence Luckinbill was one of the best castings in that film and was very believable as a man who would leave a movement with the charisma he carried. My story would basically pick up on a thread that began on the 2009 film with the destruction of Vulcan. After Nero's destruction, a great number of Vulcans had a very difficult time recovering from the trauma, that their logical upbringing isn't helping them suppress the boiling emotions within. Many of them are all emotionally lost, some committing suicide, being sent to mental facilities, ect.

Enter Sybok. He blames the teachings of Surak for not preparing the Vulcans for the trauma they went through and decides to take a great number of them under his wing to help guide them emotionally. Using logic and emotion, he gives them all a focus: Romulus. Despite the Romulan government denying Nero had nothing to do with them, Sybok believes it was a lie and that Nero was secretly working for them to destroy Vulcan. With this propaganda, he is building up his followers into becoming his own soldiers to fight the Romulans as a way for avenging the homeworld that was destroyed, and believing that if they take down the Romulans that their quadrant of the galaxy would be saved from further destruction. That is what Sybok labels as true logic, and with the Vulcans being emotional they begin to believe in that flawed logic, making them more determined and dangerous. The movie begins with Romulan colonies being attacked by Sybok's terrorists.

Back at Starfleet, Kirk and Spock are called into a briefing with an admiral. The admiral informs them that the Romulan government asked for assistance in capturing Sybok and his followers. If the Federation does not take any action on the renegade Vulcans, the Romulans will believe that they are actually condoning Sybok's attacks thus regard it as an act of war. Kirk is given carte blanche to capture Sybok dead or alive to avert the first war with Romulans in a hundred years. Through this film, Spock comes to truly realize the importance of Surak's teachings, that when Vulcans are driven by emotion they become more unstable than most species and are very destructive. That is why the logical upbringing is most paramount for Vulcans. Kirk comes to respect Spock's logic more and for the first time is thankful to have him as a friend, even if it started off rocky between them on their first adventures.

When confronting Sybok, he defends his actions because he not only believes in his conspiracies but that he also gave these emotionally lost Vulcans a purpose and goal to strive for. He admits to not liking the killing, but believes that it is the logical thing to do to not only ensure the safety of their quadrant but also give the emotionally scarred Vulcans some closure whether it's through dying for what they believe in or succeeding. Despite his leadership, many of the Vulcans begin to question whether Sybok should lead them. Spock uses this as an example of why emotions cloud the judgement of Vulcans. Even though Sybok has mastered his emotions, not all his followers have that capacity and will eventually turn against him as their emotions supersede logic.


I think this would make a good entry for the new crew with Pine and Quinto. The idea of logic vs emotion, finding the balance is very Roddenberry and with the right talent I think it could make a very good story that both compliments both the original Star Trek and the direction the current series is trying to take. I truly believe you can have an action extravaganza Star Trek film and at the same time incorporate the themes and ideas that makes the franchise stand out from all the other action schlock.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:31 am

I don't know. Sounds more like searching and hunting down renegades. Not much an interesting and exciting Star Trek film for me. Sounds like there is no exploring space there. If I could explain my concept for the third film with the new cast in a better detail. Only if you could read my mind. Lol. Mine is more science fiction and space exploration, something more like the 2001 Odyssey, Stargate, Contact, Apollo 13 etc but more excitement and action. I always like more the scientific stuff in Star Trek than the political, diplomacy and military stuff. And oh I always enjoy the human quality part of Star Trek (the characters, the friendships and the relationships) too. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:53 am

I agree, I'm just using that as an example of what I would do if I had to look back for previous stories for inspiration. I would definitely prefer a big screen version of something on the level of "The Corbomite Maneuver" where it's the Enterprise all on their own during the five year mission, meaning you never see Earth for the entire movie, the crew has to figure out the problem themselves and can't get any assistance.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:38 am

Yeah that too. I think more like the other episodes where they explore unknowns and run into space anomalies, strange phenomenons, probes, entities or some the Borg episodes (like the one where Seven of Nine's parents were studying the Borg).


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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:45 am

I'd like to save the Borg for TNG, if the alternate timeline goes that far. For these films I think they should only use elements established on TOS or they could introduce new ones. There's plenty in TOS to revisit or reinvent. If they keep going that route, I have a feeling we'll see the planet killer from "The Doomsday Machine".

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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:09 am

I see no reason Kirk and his crew couldn't face things from the TNG era (24th Century) dangers and threats. I just think that would be interesting. Captain Archer and his crew face the Borg in one episode of Enterprise and that was one of my favorites. You should check out some videos on You Tube where they have Kirk and his Enterprise vs the Borg. I don't know I'm just really obsessed with Kirk vs the Borg and would love see that on the big screen and see what the Borg look like with today's visual effects that wasn't there in the 90s. I actually think Star Trek XIII would be the last one of Abrams' Trek universe. I heard some rumors about them doing a new TV series after the third film.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:11 am

Which is too bad. I think the reboot should have been done on TV instead of film. Given these aren't coming out every other year like the original films, it does make it less likely we'll see this crew beyond a third film unless they're all really willing to return without shaking the studio for bigger salaries. Would have been interesting to see a new TV series with Kirk and many more adventures. TV is ultimately where Trek's true strengths lie. A big budget film isn't as important to Trek as a good story.


Another point I'd like to see realized for these films: The characters acting like adults, especially Kirk. I understand that these films are aimed more at teenagers these days, but that doesn't mean the cast should act like them. The whole thing with Kirk lying about his report in the beginning of the movie was inexcusable. Kirk may bend the rules now and then, but he never lied about it. He always owned his actions because he believed he did the right thing and wasn't going to hide that.

I do believe the ending of INTO DARKNESS with Kirk gaining a new-found respect for the captain's chair is an indication that he'll act more like a real captain in the next film. I do hope so, because I'd like to get away from the whole reckless youth aspect. Daniel Craig may have made a great debut in CR where he played a more reckless and impulsive James Bond, but by the third film they knew they had to move on from that and present him as a veteran instead. I'd like to see Pine's Kirk with a bit more experience and patience. I really think he has the potentail.

Then there's Spock. I'd like them to move away from the emo Spock. I dunno what it is with the actor, but he always comes off like he's angry or irritated. Then there are moments where he's emotionally overwhelmed. Him screaming "Khan" was not only an unnecessary callback but an extremely unSpock moment. Get the fuck away from that! What made the original Spock interesting was that he was always striving to purge his emotions, only occasionally slipping but those occasions were special because you never got to see that side of him very often. A prime example is his joy over seeing Kirk alive and well at the end of "Amok Time". That was truly special.

Also, ditch the Spock/Uhura angle. I didn't mind it at first, but I'm not really happy how it's panning out. That argument when they're on their way to Kronos really doesn't ring well. Then that got me thinking, what is the point of their relationship? Is it like what Mr. Plinkett said, that the filmmakers only paired them up just to show audiences that Spock has a case of the notgays so nobody suspects something between him and Kirk? Whatever the reason, it's just not working for me. I think Uhura can play a substantial role besides "Spock's girlfriend".

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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:00 am

Who knows they might do a new show with Kirk. I kind of hoping they would go back to the prime timeline. Maybe before Romulus was destroyed. I still think the next series should be on a new crew and ship (or another ship named Enterprise) whether it takes place in the 22nd, 23rd or 24th Century or beyond and maybe have few cameos from TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. I thought it would be cool if they would explore another aspect of Star Trek where they never explored much with the previous series and films. Maybe like the mirror universe where is the Terran Empire (the evil Federation) like some fans suggested or a series about Federation civilians outside of Starfleet or one with Klingons or Romulans etc.

Oh I found this interesting if Star Trek: Enterprise gotten it's 5th season. It's what I have read on Wikipedia.

Source: Wikipedia wrote:
Plans for Season 5:

At the time of its cancellation, planning for a proposed fifth season of Enterprise was underway. Most details of this never-made season come from comments made by producer Manny Coto who in 2009 stated that two arcs of this season might have been to show the 'origins of the Federation' and 'whispers of the Romulan war', and consequently, the Romulans would have been the major villains of the season.

Coto also stated that had the series been given a fifth season, the recurring Andorian character of Shran might have joined the Enterprise in an advisory role.

Other possible plans for the season included: an episode showing the construction of the first starbase; a Borg Queen origins story with Alice Krige as a Starfleet medical technician who makes contact with the Borg from Season 2's "Regeneration" and becomes the Borg Queen, and a Mirror Universe arc spanning four or five episodes.

There were also hopes for an episode in which T'Pol would finally meet her father and discover that he was in fact a Romulan agent who had posed as a Vulcan officer prior to faking his own death. The revelation that T'Pol was half-Romulan would have shed light on her affinity for humanity and as well as her interest in experimenting with emotions.


Yeah I liked the ending with Kirk. I have to agree with you about the Spock/Uhura angle. I felt that was kind of rush and poor writing there. I have seen better romantic/love stories than that and I didn't see the chemistry. Plus Christine Chapel (Majel Barrett-Roddenberry) had a thing for Spock in the original series if I recalled correctly. I think it was in "The Naked Time" where she was in love with Spock.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:26 am

Yeah I'm aware of the S5 plans, which is too bad because I thought it made a real turning point with S4. That's what the show should have been like from the start. I liked S3, even though it deviated from the whole concept of the show it was still really well done and was a nice 9/11 anology that felt very Trek. Instead of fighting the Xindi they try to make peace with him. Very Roddenberry.

RE: Spock/Uhura: It's so odd that the writers didn't use Chapel for the romance with Spock. It's right there in the show, even beyond "The Naked Time" it was obvious in other episodes she still had something for him. Maybe they just felt it was too many characters so they stuck with the more familiar characters as Chapel didn't have much of a role beyond TMP.

RE: New show: If CBS decides to do a new show after Paramount is done with the current film cast, I think it would be best to do what was done back with TNG. Set it further into the future, if you need a cameo just use one in the pilot then move on, but let the show stand on its own for awhile and become iconic in its own right.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:51 am

They could do a series based on the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-J from the 26th Century that was briefly shown on ENT: "Azati Prime" or one based on the USS Relativity from the 29th century shown on VOY: "Relativity".

USS Enterprise NCC-1701-J



USS Relativity



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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:26 am

They could, but it's likely they'll go another route. I know if I were running a new Trek show I would want to have a bunch of sketches of the new starship before deciding which will design represent the TV show. The design of the starship is an important factor to making your show stand out, having it be almost a character itself and that the design will be regarded as iconic. That was one of the things TNG got right because they knew the ship's design would leave an impression and be different enough from Kirk's ship to stand on its own. I'm not sure whoever takes over would want to be stuck with the Enterprise-J design, when they could make their own.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:50 am

I just thought it would be cool since we only saw just a brief glimpse of the 26th Century Enterprise in a battle with the sphere builders. Well they only showed a small interior corridor of it (where Archer and Daniels transported and stood) and they still could make the rest of the ship as their own. But yeah it's more likely they'll go another route like you said. You know there is another thought they could make a new animated Star Trek series like they done for TOS and it could be a way to have ENT return for a 5th season like they originally planned. Whether computer animation or animation (maybe like Bruce Timm's DCAU).

You should check this out.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you want in Star Trek XIII?   Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:12 am

Some of the ENT writers have expressed doing a revival of the show via Netflix, as ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT was just revived after being cancelled for seven years. Of course, it would be a lot more expensive for ENT given how they'd have to rebuild all the sets and each episode cost two million dollars, so I'm not sure if they can afford that. Still, I think animation would be a good way to go to continue that series.

I just don't want it to be like BLOOD AND CHROME where it's all shot on green screen sets.

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